Saturday, July 30, 2022

UK Households Are Paying Wind Turbine Owners To Not Generate Electricity

 



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13 min ago

I suspect that this government is taking us down the road to “third world electrical power status” whereby the nation will have to learn and plan for unexpected and often lengthy power cuts. Personally I rather relaxed at the prospect as I have solar panels with backup batteries and a diesel generator. However, my great concern is for the vast majority who have neither the space or funds to finance a “Plan B”!

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1 hr ago


3 hrs ago


 6 hrs ago

When wind turbines are switched off, the UK burns gas in turbines.

In other words we need to double capital investment (1) in wind, and (2) gas turbines. In the old days, we only spent the money once

By the way, we need this gas in our home gas boilers.

Today Wind = 11%, gas turbines (ccgt) = 54% (grid watch)

6 hrs ago

When wind turbines are switched off, the UK burns gas in turbines.

In other words we need to double capital investment (1) in wind, and (2) gas turbines. In the old days, we only spent the money once

By the way, we need this gas in our home gas boilers.

Today Wind = 11%, gas turbines (ccgt) = 54% (grid watch)

 


  1. The 'Worlds Biggest Liquid Air Battery' would have to be replicated 533 times to supply present day household use for just 24 hours with nary a heat pump or EV in sight yet. Remember that is without a factory, office, hospital, streetlight or anything outside of a house or flat turned on. When the whirlygigs go on strike again putting out just 2 or 3% of their claimed output for days at a time nothing will cover it except gas fired plants (or even coal) necessitating an entire back up generating system in reserve at vast cost which will then have to be used to recharge the batteries (of any ilk).

    Should every household have a heat pump at a conservative 3Kw consumption that would entail a load of some 66Gw which is the equivalent of the output of 22 Hinkley Point Cs at point of generation. When temperatures plummet to minus 5 or 6 and back up heaters compensate the poor output of said heat pumps double that to 44 HPCs. This is clearly impossible; after all how long has it taken and how much has it cost not to build one.

    Then for every home to add an additional 3Kw load which will be turned on at the same time every substation and supply cable in the land will have to be upgraded at vast expense.

    You think electricity bills are high now.......you haven't seen anything yet. But at the end of the day it won't do anything 'to save the planet' as China and India etc. forge ahead doing what they want...... displacing the west as they go along. 

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 THE SCI FI VIEW

  • What the article does not say is that the National Grid (NG) ESO (electricity system operator) is in the middle of a project that will complete by 2025. When it is finished, there will be no need for any active gas plants on the system at all whenever wind, solar, nuclear and other fuels are generating enough to meet demand. This will happen more and more frequently as 4x the offshore wind is installed.

    Currently the grid needs a minimum gas generation active to provide stability services (inertia, frequency stabilisation at various timescales, short circuit current, reactive power). The NG ESO will kick wind off to make room for this minimum gas level.

    The NG ESO has implemented some of the initial contracts to provide these services by other means. Some examples:-

    - Dogger Bank C offshore wind farm onshore equipment will provide reactive power from 2024, whether generating or not.

    - The Cruachan pumped hydro scheme will run one turbine in air to provide inertia and short circuit current when not generating. It provides these services anyway when it is generating.

    - Some gas plans will have clutches fitted so that the fixed connection between the turbines and generators is broken. When not generating, the generator is run up to speed using mains power, then provides stability services - when working in this mode is it known as a "synchronous condenser". Coal plant generators can be converted to synchronous condensers.

    The NG ESO will only have to kick wind power off the grid when there really is too much of it - not just to make way for gas to provide stability services. Surplus wind power can then be exported via interconnectors. There will also be grid batteries to soak it up, and some of it will be used for green hydrogen production.


    You are obviously well up on this stuff Peter. Please tell me. This Highview power storage method of cryo storage of fresh air. Is this serious storage that will be mass produced or just a niche method?



  • Excellent and enlightening comment. Twenty years ago I worked in the industry that manufactures wind turbine blades. Despite this I was of the opinion that because of the intermittent nature of generation, huge pump storage schemes would be needed to compliment them. Politicians who spoke of "XXX Mw of generation CAPACITY" would annoy me. Looks like we have made some leaps forward with much more to come. Thanks Peter.



  • ‘When it is finished, there will be no need for any active gas plants on the system at all whenever wind, solar, nuclear and other fuels are generating enough to meet demand.’ OK so there must be sufficient back up for when wind and solar can’t supply enough (or occasionally nothing). This has to be paid for and thus when needed the owners need to recoup their costs so the prices will be understandably exorbitant. Batteries are nowhere near capable of supplying large amounts of power over long periods of time and will run down and there will be no power available to charge them.


 

 

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