Former Pfizer Virus Reseach Boss Warns Of Government, Big Pharma Deception Over Covid Threat

 

The former director of and vice president of Pfizer Corp., Dr. Mike Yeadon of whome we have writen before HERE AND HERE, has again courted controversy by going against the official narrative and warning that the government and Big Pharma are collaborating to exaggerate the  threat  of COvID-19 to the general population. Dr. Yeadon said in a recent interview that governments around the world had overstated  the true risk of the Wuhan SARS2 coronavirus. According to Yeadon, an expert in , an expert in the biology and evolution of viral organisms,, “global crimes against humanity are being perpetrated against a large proportion of the world’s population.”

After a career spanning more than three decaees leading research projects on new medicines and vaccines Yeadon knows what he is talking about. By the time he retired, he held “the most senior research position” in the pharmaceutical industry. 

The scientist addressed several points during his telephone interview with LifeSiteNews, mostly involving “demonstrably false” propaganda from governments.

Firstly, he spoke about the “lie” of so-called Wuhan coronavirus such as the British B117 and South African B1351 strains which have been used to extend the atmosphere of crisis. Yeadon remarked: “The variants aren’t different … they’re pretty much the same.” He explained that when a virus enters the body, cells called professional antigen-presenting cells break down the pathogen and introduce the viral pieces to other cells. This way, the immune system becomes familiar with the virus.

Continuing his lkayman;s terms explanation of how viruses operate in the body he added: “Now, if a tiny piece of the virus changes … [and] if you are re-infected by that variant, your professional [antigen-presenting] cells tear into that virus and cut it into pieces. [When the professional cells] present them again, … most of the pieces that [your immune system has] already seen and recognized are still there in the variants.”

Secondly Yeadon addressed the social control agenda of vaccine passports to totalitarian regimes such as the government of Communist China or the global government proposed by the World Economic Forum and The United Nations. He said: “I think the end game is going to be ‘everyone receives a vaccine.’ Everyone on the planet is going to find themselves persuaded … to take a jab.” He remarked that once the world’s population is vaccinated – each and every person will have a name, an accompanying unique digital ID and a health status flag indicating if they are vaccinated or not.

Once all of us have been issued with our vaccine passport, it would of course be simple to extend it to something resembling the social credit score operated in China, a digital document which defines the status of an individual and grants or denies privileges and permissions depending on how dutiful a citizen they are.

The former Pfizer researcher warned that whoever is in control of the database holding this information definitely holds absolute power. They can have total control over people’s transactions on a whim, essentially making “playthings” out of the world’s people. Yeadon elaborated that while vaccine passports are presented to the public as mainly for traveling to other places, he foresees their potential use for controlling people.

“I’ve heard talk of [vaccine passports], that they could be necessary for you to get into … enclosed public spaces. I expect that if they wanted to, yolyu would not be able to leave your house in the future without the appropriate privilege,” he warned.

Yeadon also warned of depopulation through Wuhan coronavirus vaccines

Repeating his previous warnings on the subject, the scientist said there is a long standing plan to get rid of a large chunk of the world’s population using vaccines. Bill Gates, the world's biggest vaccine fanboy who has no medical training or experience whatsoever, has spoken of this mant times and when called out on what sounds like suport for ethnic cleansing has waffled about vaccines reducing infant death rates thus relieving people in poor third world nations of the need to have many children. These responses only reveal that Gates knoes less about third world cultures than he does about medicine.

Yeadon and many other researchers have warned that the mRNA technique used in the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines will result in infertility in many women as it tricks the body into manufacturing the notorious spike protien which coronavirus varieties use to bread into cells. The sceptical researchers point out that as the human immune system attacks this spike protien it will simultaneously attack the placenta in pregnant women and the reproductive system of women who intend to have children. Remember here, Mike Yeadon is not an amateur dabbler with a political agenda like Bill Gates.

Governments are misleading their citizens regarding the prevalence of more infectious Wuhan coronavirus strains to increase the presure to accept vaccinations. Pharmaceutical firms meanwhile exploit this demand to create vials of dangerous jabs that go to people’s arms. Yeadon expressed his concern over the propaganda aimed at coercing people to accept vaccination thus:  “I’m very worried … that pathway will be used for mass depopulation, because I can’t think of any benign explanation.” (Related: Ex-Pfizer VP: Stop vaccinating people who are not at risk of dying from coronavirus.)

He remarked: “The eugenicists have got hold of the levers of power and this is a really artful way of getting you to line up and receive some unspecified thing that will damage you. It will be plausibly deniable because there will be something else going on in the world at that time, in the context of which your demise, or that of your children, will look normal.”

Long before his interview with LifeSiteNews, Yeadonb had rungalarm bells over the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine’s safety on pregnant women. He and German physician Wolfgang Wodarg wrote a letter to the European Medicines Agency back in December 2020 calling for the suspension of vaccine trials on humans. According to the two, COVID-19 vaccines may prevent the safe development of placentas in pregnant women - Pfizer coronavirus vaccine warning: No breastfeeding or getting pregnant after being immunized… it might damage the child.)

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Bulletin Of Atomic Scientists Opens The Wuhan Virus Pandora's Box

 

By Nicholas Wade in the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists (via Zero Hedge),

The COVID-19 pandemic has disrupted lives the world over for more than a year. Its death toll will soon reach three million people. Yet the origin of pandemic remains uncertain: The political agendas of governments and scientists have generated thick clouds of obfuscation, which the mainstream press seems helpless to dispel.

In what follows I will sort through the available scientific facts, which hold many clues as to what happened, and provide readers with the evidence to make their own judgments. I will then try to assess the complex issue of blame, which starts with, but extends far beyond, the government of China.

By the end of this article, you may have learned a lot about the molecular biology of viruses. I will try to keep this process as painless as possible. But the science cannot be avoided because for now, and probably for a long time hence, it offers the only sure thread through the maze.

Members of the World Health Organization (WHO) team investigating the origins of the COVID-19 coronavirus arrive by car at the Wuhan Institute of Virology on February 3. (Photo by HECTOR RETAMAL/AFP via Getty Images)

The virus that caused the pandemic is known officially as SARS-CoV-2, but can be called SARS2 for short. As many people know, there are two main theories about its origin. One is that it jumped naturally from wildlife to people. The other is that the virus was under study in a lab, from which it escaped. It matters a great deal which is the case if we hope to prevent a second such occurrence.

I’ll describe the two theories, explain why each is plausible, and then ask which provides the better explanation of the available facts. It’s important to note that so far there is no direct evidence for either theory. Each depends on a set of reasonable conjectures but so far lacks proof. So I have only clues, not conclusions, to offer. But those clues point in a specific direction. And having inferred that direction, I’m going to delineate some of the strands in this tangled skein of disaster. ... Continue reading >>>

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Oxford Academics Turn On Gay BLT Propagandists For Pushing Unscientific Claims

Gay, Lesbian and Trans rights protestor holds a placard making a typically idiotic statement - human rights apply to all humans, trans-rights are the infantile demands of self pitying losers.

'More than 30 Oxford academics have blasted Stonewall for pushing 'tendentious and antiscientific claims' in the trans awareness training it gives to universities according to a report in The Sunday Times (a more sensationalized version of the same story appears in The Daily Mail if you are blocked by The Times paywall).

The professors and lecturers have taken issue with Oxford University's compulsory training programme on Gay, Lesbian and Transgender issues, that includes dogmatic statements about permissible attitudes "towards Gay, Lesbian and especially Transgender rights, including such unmitigated wank as "gender is how people interpret and view themselves." The Oxford academics expressed their opposition to such unscientific nonsense beong forced on teaching staff, research fellows and students in a letter passed to The Sunday Times.

They call for universities to sever links with Stonewall and other LGBT charities until and unless those organisations dump their fascistic attempts to restrict freedom of though and commit to 'fully supporting academic freedom of thought'.

Academics are also being bullied by student groups to withdraw invitations to "transphobic speakers," i.e. anyone who do not accept "that trans people are the gender they say they are" or maintain that gender is determined by our biological sex rather that "feelings".

They fear the new rules university managers have accepted after being bullied by Gay BLT lobying could see staff lose their jobs, and that they contravene the right of free speech.

Modern history professor Selina Todd is quoted by the Sunday Times as saying: "[This] is really pushing an agenda which is dogmatic and completely overruling freedom of speech... I am very scared that academics will start to lose their jobs.

"I feel uncomfortable. I've told my employer that I feel vulnerable and I've had students say they feel intimidated by what's going on at this campus."

Oxford and Cambridge last year spent £55,000 between them on LGBT training so staff are better equipped to help students who may be struggling. According to a NUS LGBTQ+ report from 2014, just 20 per cent of trans students feel completely safe on campus, which begs questions just how many of these mental cases are there at Oxford. One in three trans students said they had experienced bullying or harassment - while 51 per cent have seriously considered dropping out of their course. The Daily Stirrer does not see that as any loss to either the university or society in general were that to happen.

And what are these trans students studying for anyway, degrees in self pity?

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GM insects for disease control should be trialled in the UK, says House of Lords Committee

by Arthur Foxake

Staking its claim as a leading contender for "science worshipping idiot of the year, The Canary blog pubshished this in December 2012.

"Genetically modified (GM) insects could be trialled in the UK to prevent the transmission of disease and reduce agricultural pests. That’s if the House of Lords Science and Technology Committee get their way.
The Committee’s report, released on Thursday 17 December 2015, discusses the results of an inquiry into the science and potential benefits and risks of using genetically modified insects as a tool to tackle major challenges of food security and human and animal health.
The committee concluded that the UK’s considerable expertise in this area and the potential of the technology in, for example, stamping out malaria, which has already been shown in overseas field trials (for example, by University of Oxford spin-out Oxitec), warrants a UK-based field trial."

The science besotted idiot who wrote the piece completely ignores the obvious flaws in this plan and starts burbling enthusiastically about how releasing GM mosquitos in Britain will eradicate disease, poverty, unemployment, football hooliganism, Islamic terrorism and soggy pizzas (OK, I may be exaggerating for comic effect, but only slightly.).

Several species of biting mosquitoes (as opposed to non biting mosquitos? They're bloodsuckers FFS.) can carry malaria, which is one of the world’s greatest causes of severe illness (such as malaria) and death (from malaria). Although we don’t currently see people getting infected with malaria in the UK, the article warns, climate change is making the habitat more favourable for this to happen. Well OK, and it will happen sooner if people start releasing mosquitos of non native types capable of carrying malaria into the environment.

The only way to be sure of preventing malaria, as well as other mosquito-borne illnesses such as dengue and chikungunya viruses, is to avoid being bitten by a mosquito in an area where the disease is circulating. And that is the aim of scientists creating GM mosquitoes that are sterile (either the male, in the case of Oxitec, or the female, in a technique developed by Imperial College London) and have been successful in reducing local populations of the insects by up to 95% in overseas trials.

Common sense of course suggests that it would be more wise to leave things as they are because the only cases of those tropical diseases occur in the tropics. But when was common sense ever a consideration for scientists. The thing they fear more than any other is that one day the research grants might run out and they will have to get proper jobs and GET SOME FUCKING WORK DONE. So these clever fools have worked out that if they can create problems, the government will pay them to find solutions. Who gives a fuck how many people suffer or die as a result of such idiocy, harmful consequences of their fuckwittery are never a consideration for scientists. In fact the more people that suffer and die, the bigger the research grants will be.

There are preventative drugs available, but science pushers argue the malaria parasite is becoming resistant and, although there was a successful trial of a vaccine reported in summer 2015, it will still be a while before it is available. Even then, this is only about 30% effective. And what makes anyone think that GM mosquitoes immunising people in an uncontrolled way is going to work(unless the scientists have created a GM collie dog to function as a mozzie dog in the way collies have herded sheep for hundreds of years.

The report concludes GM mosquitoes will probably not be a “silver bullet” against malaria. and other mosquito-borne diseases. OK, then, so it is just another exercise in the science of flushing taxpayers money down the toilet.

Another
scientific pipedreamproposed use for GM insects is in agriculture.

With a food security crisis already wreaking havoc in many parts of the world as, thanks to science incrasing birthrates, eradicating disease and increasing life span without considering the consequences (sic), agriculture must be made more more indisrialised and intensive (the scientists report uses the term sustainable but the increases in productivity gained through scientists meddling with nature come at a huge and unpredictable environmental cost.

The techniques where GM is used to control agricultural pests are similar to those aimed at bringing down the population of disease-carrying insects. The idea is that you release sterile individuals into a wild population and within a fairly short period the failure in reproduction leads to the reduction of numbers, without the use of costly and potentially harmful pesticides. The usual idiotic leap of logic there is that unmodified insects will choose to mate only with sterile specimens. Again the problem of our inability to control insects behaviour in the environment is ignored.

The only effect of this project us ordinary punters are likely to feel is an increase in our taxes as governments have to fund clearing up the various messes these poorly though through projects are.


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Is it possible to eradicate all diseases?

Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg and his wife have dreamed up this great money making scheme. They have announced they will try to eradicate all diseases by the end of the century. It follows down the same path of greed and self interest previously trodden by Bill and Melinda Gates and their Gates Foundation which has been so sucessful in its efforts to eradicate disease and poverty that it now gets $2 from governments and the United Nations for every $1 it spends ...




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Insane Science Pushing The Earth Towards Ecocide.
At the Daily Stirrer we have suspected it for a log time, science is insane, a game for the ethically challenged and sociopathic to compete to be first to develop a new plague, or a death ray, or to trash the enviromnent in pursuit of political power or corporate profits for their paymasters. There's even a name for what they are doing now, Ecocide.
Elsewhere: [Boggart Blog]...[Little Nicky Machiavelli]... [ Ian's Authorsden Pages ]... [Scribd]...[Wikinut] ... [ Boggart Abroad] ... [ Grenteeth Bites ] ... Ian Thorpe at Flickr ] ... [ Tumblr ] ... [Ian at Minds ] ... [ The Original Boggart Blog]

Has Human Evolution Stopped - Are We Now Masters Of Our Own Destiny

The usual arguments around the topic of evolution revolve on the science versus religion war, did we evolve or were we created? That is really an unsatisfactory debate because unless the ancient texts of many religions are interpreted literally then the Big Bang could have been the result of an act of creation while evolution addresses the diversity of life, not its origin.  When we consider the question of whether modern biology has made evolution obsolete however, that is fertile ground for those who like to speculate.

Read a considered article on the question of evolution: are the current generation of humans the end of evolution, will science now determine what we become in the future, or have the scientists got it horribly wrong in trying to control nature and will future generations pay an enormous price for their hubris.

Has Human Evolution Stopped

STEM Education and Scientism - the curse of modern education. We need a renaissance

Education, education, education, said Prime Minister Tony Blair. He meant indoctrination, indoctrination, indoctrination of course. The thing the Politically Correct intellectual bullies of the new left fear most is an educated working class capable of questioning the dogmas of the scientific dictatorship.

In common with Bill Clinton, Gerhard Schroeder and Jaques chirac in his own ear, and Barack Obama, Angela Merkel and Francois hollande among the current generation Blair, extolled the benefits of the STEM education, Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics, subjects on which, in the view od politicians, all education should focused from a very early age.

It's bollocks of course, from an early age children need to be given a broad base on which they can later build their specialisations later. The Renaissance education which my generation had the benefit of, was designed to do this. It produced whole, rounded human beings not nerds with heads full off book learning and no life experience, or semi - autistic OCD bell ends who get twithchy if the have not heard the word 'science' for more than thirty seconds.

The values and purposes of Renaissance education were to improve the society, increase the economy, and refine religious beliefs by equipping people to question dogma. The social lives of people were greatly influenced by advancements in education during the Renaissance. More people then ever before were sent to schools and educated.

The Theory of The Renaissance Education or Liberal Arts Education as it is sometimes called was that a broad grounded in language, mathematics, the arts and natural sciences (Physics, Chemistry, Biology) prepares its graduates to pursue a wide range of interests in later life.

Rather than producing highly focused people with a very narrow skill set, the Renaissance Education should equip those who benefit from it to pursue a wide range of interests throughout their lives.

The STEM Education and Scientism - the curse of modern education



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Religion, Science? Will Nothing Shut The Fundamentalists Up?

Evolution - the next stage (Image source)

The religious fundamentalists have surely realised that they cause is lost, the world wasn't created in seven days, periods are not a curse put on women by God for Eve's disobedience and we are not all going to suddenly decide we have to believe their idiotic rantings.

All of which my explain why they are getting loonier and more hysterical in their attempts to scare the gullible.

Two old posts at Pandangon on the fundie related topics are well worth reading to remind ourselves how obnoxious the right were when they had the upper hand (It is therefore understandble that the left have become obnoxious bullies during the Obama era - understandable but not acceptable:

Creationism Is One Long Temper Tantrum

The Voice of God

On the other hand, the sciencologists can be just as bad. Take a look at this exchange between two of our contributors (who both accept Darwinian evolution as the Origin Of The Species presents it, but reject Dawkinsian evolution which requires us to indulge in magical thinking to accept that matter can evolve out of nohing and life can evolve out of non life)

Richard Dawkins: ‘Terrible Indictment’ of Ben Carson That He’s ‘Ignorant’ on Evolution (Breitbart London)

Sunday ( November 1, 2015) on CNN’s “Fareed Zakaria GPS,”

British evolutionary biologist and atheist Richard Dawkins said Republican presidential candidate Dr. Ben Carson not believing in evolution is a “disgrace for a distinguished doctor” and a “terrible indictment.”

On the Republican candidates not believing in evolution, Dawkins said, “This is not something you believe in or not. This is a fact. It is a fact. It’s just as much as fact as that the earth goes around the Sun. You can’t not believe it unless you’re ignorant. I don’t believe those presidential candidates are ignorant. I believe what they are doing is they think they have got to say that in order to appeal to their constituency. If that’s true, it’s deeply depressing.”

On Dr. Ben Carson specifically Richard Dawkins said, “You just told me all the Republican candidates except one doesn’t believe in evolution, I mean that’s a disgrace. For a senor a very eminent, distinguished doctor, as he is, to say that is even worse. Because of course evolution is the bedrock of biology and biology is the bedrock of medicine. For a distinguished doctor to not understand, I have to use the word understand, he clearly doesn’t understand the fundamental theory of his own subject, that’s a terrible indictment.”

At Boggart Blog (with Greenteeth and The Daily Stirrer) we love to wind up Dawkin's followers for the wy they have turned science into a relion and try to force acceptance of their dogma. The problem I have with Dawkinsian evolution (I'm fine with Darwin)is it proffers 'evolution as the driving force behind the origin of life on earth. One of our contributors decided to stir things up a bit by replying. First thing to note though, Dawkins is not an evolutionary biologist, he's a geneticist and as such tends to overstate the importance of genes.

Arthur Foxake • 2 days ago

If only Dawkins understood evolution himself I might be willing to listen to he opinion. To Dawkins, his followers and other militant atheist sects in the Church Of Scienceology, Evolution is just an atheist creation myth.
A biologist of my intimate acquaintance once told me that abiogenisis (the theory that life emerged spontaneously when a cocktail of chemical compounds came together in warm water surrounding volcanic vents on the seabed) cannot be correct because for a cell to form certain enzymes must be present and these enzymes can only be developed within a living cell. Being a proper scientist she also said that is not certain, but no other explanation stands up to questioning and attempts by bio - chemists to persuade life to emerge spontaneously have failed to produce positive results.
So perhaps Prof Dawkins and his followers can explain for us doubters which came first, the enzymes or the cell?
Abiogenisis is no more credible than The Book Of Genesis and Darwin's 'Origin Of The Species By Natural Selection' etc. only deals with how species, by adapting to environmental changes eventually become new species.

rationalobservations @ Arthur Foxake • 2 days ago

"First it’s important to note that accepting the reality of evolution is not a devotion to atheism.
The former Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams recognizes that humans evolved from other animals.
Pope John Paul II openly recognized the realities of evolution in 1996.
President John F. Kennedy had no problem with evolution. In fact, one of his speeches discussing our origin from the sea was played during a Super Bowl XLIX commercial for Carnival Cruise Lines.

There are those who keep a liberal interpretation of their religion that allows compatibility with modern science. This has allowed millions of Christians and people of other faiths to contribute to advancements in medicine, sanitation, food supply, transportation, and other fields that have greatly increased the standard of living for mankind.

And then there are those who keep a dogmatic interpretation of their religion that only leaves room for an 18th century understanding of the universe. Ironically these same people use computers and iPhones. They have no problem using technology that was made available by modern science while keeping their antiquated views of reality.

Someone who dogmatically believes that disease can only be cured by god and prayer will never create a vaccine that will ultimately be responsible for saving millions of lives.

Imagine a child arguing that the earth is not spinning because we don’t feel it or crash into things when we jump straight up. The best thing to do would be to explain the supporting scientific evidence that clearly demonstrates that the earth is spinning and relativity to understand why it doesn’t seem to be from our perspective.

But what if the child refused to listen and simply kept repeating that the earth doesn’t rotate. That is one obnoxious child that refuses to listen or learn. Now let’s suppose the child is 40 years old. We would need to conclude that the adult was mentally challenged, delusional, or extremely gullible and being persuaded by ignorant people.

When creationists argue that we never see a cat turning into a dog, the ignorance is staggering. What makes it worst is they often say things like that with a smug grin. Not only do they have no idea of how a species is classified or how evolution works, they are proudly and shamelessly ignorant. They have no desire at all to read a book and actually learn the subject matter.

A species should never be understood as some giant sudden leap from elephant to tiger. There is no magical point in time where a biological divide causes separate species classifications between animals. This understanding is critical to understanding evolution. The evolution of species isn’t about a sudden giant horn, long neck, or trunk. The most basic species classifications are about the ability to mate.

When the separation of animals occur such as when one group of animals is gradually divided into separate land masses by water through continental separation and drift, and that separation continues to the point where if rejoined the two groups would no longer be able to biologically mate, or when that possibility is extremely low, they would then be classified as different species.

But once again, there is no magical point in time and the definition isn’t perfect. We classify Neanderthals as a different species from our own, but we now know that there was interbreeding between them and our ancient ancestors. Once again, the species classification isn’t based on a magical point in time.

The split between a singular group of animals into different groups in different physical locations which cause them to follow different evolutionary paths is critical to understand. Often a creationist will say if humans evolved from monkeys, why do we still have monkeys. That’s like saying if British people colonized North America, why do we still have British people. And we didn’t evolve from modern monkeys which makes the creationist cliché even more painfully ignorant.

Even the most dogmatic creationists have to admit that the attributes of an animal can be dramatically modified and guided through breeding. Humans have accelerated the process through artificial selection where we modify the traits of plants and animals through selective breeding and cause change to happen far more rapidly than natural selection. And now we have the technology to genetically modify plants and animals.

Creationists in admission to small gradual changes try to separate what they call micro-evolution and what they call macro-evolution. They claim to believe that adaptation and breeding can cause small changes, but not big changes. But if you believe in small changes, a big change is simply a cumulating of small changes. If you believe in small changes, you believe in big changes.

But these changes take a tremendously long time to happen. Creationists often demand that millions of years of evolution be demonstrated in their lifetime. It doesn’t work that way. The fossil evidence clearly shows evolution over a long period of time is what occurred on earth. Simple life forms evolving into complex life forms. In terms of time, even the so called “Cambrian Explosion” of rapid evolution was a time frame of tens of millions of years.

We now have DNA evidence which corresponds to geological evidence and fossil evidence. Some creationists are trying to classify what happened before our lifetimes as “historical science” which they say requires faith to believe in. This is absurd. If you dig into the ground and find a riverbed of lava, you can conclude an active volcano created it even though you were not there when it happened. That’s not faith, it’s evidence, common sense, and logic.

And how hypocritical for creationists to argue against knowledge of what happened before our lifetimes based on science and then claim truth in absurd myths said to have taken place before our lifetimes.
Their argument is akin to:
You can’t claim that lightning had the same causes it does now 2,500 years ago. You weren’t there.
Zeus caused lightning 2,500 years ago. We know this to be true because someone wrote it in a book.
Any modern scientific explanation for lightning requires the same amount of faith as “Zeus did it.”

But what about changes in higher classifications of species? It all comes down to small changes leading to bigger changes.

A lemur is classified as a Strepsirrhini. An African monkey is classified as a Catarrhini. Both of these sub classifications roll up to Primate. Dogs and cats belong to different sub classifications that roll up to Carnivora. When a separation of species continues to the point where significant changes in classification attributes occur, a different classification is created. Once again, small changes accumulate and eventually lead to big changes.

What is the difference between a cat and a dog which leads to different classifications or what creationists often refer to as different “kinds?” A cat has retractable claws. Dogs are pack animals. Cats are carnivores while dogs are omnivores. Cats can climb trees while dogs cannot. Dogs run down their pray, cats stalk. There are physical, dietary and behavioral differences between the two. They both have attributes that are common to a specific classification.

If a group of cats or dogs was to become isolated and over a large amount of time evolved to lose certain attributes related to its’ specific classification or gain certain attributes that were outside of its’ specific classification, a new classification would be created. A dog would not evolve into a cat nor would a cat evolve into a dog. They would eventually evolve into a new subcategory of Carnivora. And enough changes to a subcategory would lead to changes of higher categories.

So what’s the big deal? Why not allow creationists to poison science education and molest the knowledge that was won with great sacrifice by our ancestors? The issue is human problems require human solutions. The wellbeing of future generations rely on our scientific competency today. Creationists want to hold us back in scientific understanding and education at a critical time for our species to move forward."

- James Kirk Wall

arthurfoxake @ rational observations - 2 days ago

... and your point is?

rationalobservations @ Arthur Foxake • 2 days ago

"Creationism is not the alternative to Evolution - ignorance is."

Arthur remarked to me that rational observations, in spite of using a lot of words had not attempted to answer the question. One of our foreign affairs contributors, Ed Butt took up the case, wade through irrational's long winded replies and Ed reveals why Dawkins should not consude his beliefs with facts and why pompous old irrational observations is ridiculously wrong:

Ed Butt @ rationalobservations? - 2 days ago

Wow, what a long and thorough reply, must have taken you ages to cut and paste it. But you still have not answered Arthur's question, "Which came first, the enzyme or the cell?"

In my experience the awkward ones like that will stump the science worshippers every time.

rationalobservations? Ed Butt • a day ago

Ribozymes: scissors from an old world

Sophie Petit-Zeman

According to the biologist Jerome Lettvin, "Enzymes are things invented by biologists that explain things which otherwise require harder thinking." Protein catalysts that make reactions happen much faster than they otherwise would, enzymes are certainly a neat part of the biological picture, accelerating traffic on the highway along which DNA makes RNA, and RNA makes protein.

But this picture does indeed beg a bit of harder thinking. Given that enzymes are proteins, how did travels on the genetic road first get rolling? How did DNA make proteins, and indeed replicate itself, before it had made some enzymes, for which it needed, well, some enzymes?

Bit of a conundrum, that. And one that persisted until the revolutionary work of Thomas Cech and Sidney Altman in the 1980s overturned the notion of RNA as merely an intermediate in the synthesis of proteins from DNA, and unmasked RNA's own intrinsic catalytic activity.

The first breakthrough came in 1982 when Cech's University of Colorado team found an RNA in the ciliated protozoan Tetrahymena thermophila that could cleave and splice itself without any external protein or energy source. Shortly afterwards, Altman's group at Yale University found a similarly independent RNA in an enzyme called ribonuclease P in the bacteria Escherichia coli. The concept of enzymes made of RNA — called ribozymes — gained credence, and Cech and Altman shared the 1989 Nobel prize for chemistry for their work.

Not only did Cech's work severely upset received wisdom about the nature of enzymes and RNA, it also showed that introns — classically regarded as sequences of 'non-coding' genetic material that lie between coding exons in DNA and RNA — were far from junk. The Tetrahymena ribozyme is itself an intron, and it has since been shown that as well as possessing intrinsic catalytic activity, some intron sequences encode proteins that are required for the processing of DNA and RNA.

So, the present status of RNA as DNA's self-effacing servant may once have been very different. RNA appears to be a multitalented molecule; both a repository of information (genetic code) and a catalyst for protein synthesis and replication. The recognition that RNA had properties that are so central to the creation of life gave rise to the 'RNA world' hypothesis, that RNA had once been both scriptwriter and director (Fig. 1). While this idea is not without its critics, scientists, excited by this hypothesis, began to scour many organisms to look for more of these ribozyme 'relics'.

Ed Butt rationalobservations? • a day ago

"May once have been, and "appears to be"? Another nice cut and paste job demonstrating the usual scientific vagueness and hedging of bets. Have you anything definite to offer. Or better still any thoughts of your own to bring to this public discussion forum?

rationalobservations? Ed Butt • a day ago

That's science for you! It takes the evidence and provides a rational explanation for that evidence.

Unlike religion that takes confused and contradictory mythology and demands that no evidence is required in support of that mythology and all evidence that contradicts that mythology must be somehow "wrong".

How about some original 1st century originated evidence of the existence, life and times of a god-man/messiah that features in fables and legends that originate in first and oldest form in a bibles from 4th century Rome?

How about some rational evidence that supports the two different creation myths from genesis 1 and genesis 2?

1) Can you refer to any 1st century originated evidence of the life and times of one of many messiah claimants (only much later Greek scribes employed by the 4th century Romans) named "Jesus"?

2) Can you name a complete bible text that dates prior to the oldest/first 4th century Roman Codex Sinaiticus christian bible and matches any complete text within the oldest/first 4th century originated Codex Sinaiticus?

3) Are you aware of - and can you explain - the almost endless differences between the oldest/first 4th century handwritten Roman Codex Sinaiticus bible and those many diverse and significantly different versions of NT bibles that followed it?

4) Can you explain the confusion and internal contradiction, historical inaccuracies and scientific absurdity that is contained within all the many,many diverse and different versions of christian bibles today?

5) Can you explain the absence from Jewish literature of the Jewish prophesies that the god-man "Jesus" is claimed to have fulfilled exclusively within christian authored texts that only appear for the first time in the 4th century CE?

6) Can you explain why "Jesus" (according to the legends within NT bibles) fails to meet the specification of messiah that actually exists within Jewish literature and tradition?

Get back to me if you think you have evidence based answers to these evidence based questions.

(Don't bother with more debunked bunkum from your confused and internally contradictory book of nonsense and mythology.)

Ed Butt @ rationalobservations? • 21 hours ago

Why do you keep talking about religion? I'm not obsessed with religion like Dawkins is, I'm not even Christian. As for the Bible, it is, in my not so humble opinion, as big a load of drivel all all that vague, inconclusive stuff you keep cutting and pasting. And you are being irrational when you refer to it as MY book of nonsense. I have not referred to the Bible once until now so why do you suggest I have. Are you commenting on what you wanted me to reply rather than what I actually replied.

I get the impression that I am not reading rational observations but ravings of the deranged.

I will take questions on Zoroastrian Avestas, Hindu Vedas and European paganism but don't assume I'm a believer, my interest in them stems from other sources.

You know you should try to deal with that binary mindset problem to increase your credibility. Do you not have a clue how irrational it is to assume your critics are religious fanatics and creationists just because they don't defer to Dawkins as the Pontifex Maximus of the Church Of Scienceology and prophet of athesm.

And you still haven't answered the original question. Which came first, the enzyme or the cell? Unless you can give us facts rather than might and possibly I suggest you cling to your belief and respect the right of the God Squad to hold theirs.

Me? I'll just carry on being a wind up merchant, I enjoy it.

Rational Observations @ Ed Butt

Carry on trolling and asking meaningless questions if that makes you happy.

Ed Butt

Carry on being an irrational bigot if that's what makes you happy.

But here's something that might help you understand why evolution does not explain the origins of life. Read it, don't comment on what you think it ought to say.
http://insciences.org/article.php?article_id=5628
http://www.livescience.com/3214-life-created-lab.html
You will learn, if you have the humility to do so, that there is in fact NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that true living organisms can come into being without the presence of enzymes.

So which came first, the enzyme or the cell?

That is of course a meaningless question only in the sense that you cannot understand its meaning. Now you troll off and stop disrupting the discussions of intelligent and open minded people.

Then Arthur plunges back into the fray:

Arthur @ Foxake rationalobservations? 3 hours ago

That's not an intelligent response. Creationism and evolution are not opposites. Evolution deals with the development of species from earlier, usually less advanced species. Creationism is a belief system dealing with origins of the universe, origins of life etc.
The universe did not evolve, it happened. According to one rather tongue in cheek theory from physicist John Gribben, the creators might have been a bunch of extra terrestrial engineers. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/space/7972538/Are-we-living-in-a-designer-universe.html
I don't agree or disagree with him, unlike you my mind is not closed to ideas so I find his theory interesting and entertaining, and actually not capable of being falsified. Therefore I accept Gribben's designer universe as possible but improbable.
You on the other hand (I've read you other comments in this thread) seem to think there is only one possible kind of creation act, the one where The God Of Abraham snaps his fingers and says, "Let there be stuff." And suddenly where there was nothing, there is stuff. Absolute rubbish of course, but Big Bang theory asks us to believe a similar thing.

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